As the discussion on the LSE board goes on with speculations or panic that De Nora might buy AFC, I would just like to add to my previous mail, where I said and argued that this would not happen due to internal competition with their existing customers , the following:
First think about for example Bosch, they deliver parts to car manufacturers, if they start to make a car in the future, do you think any car manufacturer would buy parts from them anymore ?
Just one example.
Then from the De Nora statement who does not believ my arguments :
"De Nora, in line with its strategic plan to focus on the Electrode business and promote new technologies, entered into a license agreement with BASF SA for the right to manufacture and market Gas-Diffusion Electrodes (GDE) suitable for use in PEM Fuel Cells."
Their focus is the electrode business, not manufacturing Fuel Cells or deliver energy !
The only thing I can see, is that De Nora to get a licence to manufacture the electrodes also for other applications, buys into AFC at a percentage, which besides would be good for AFC !
To be frank the news feed is the least of their problems. II need (and probably are) to concentrate on getting the trading platform sorted. These boards are just a sideshow to the main purpose of II which is stockbroking. If they cant get that right they need to pack up and go home !!
"I can't see it in the News section" ii are having problems with their news feed. On the news tab on the portfolio page you will see a news entry there, but click on it, and it isn't there. It seems to be happening with all news items issued. I've dropped them an email to moan.
This question shows that you know nothing about DeNora and this business ! De Nora will not buy AFC energy. De Noras business is as part electrodes , if they buy afc they get in competition with their existing customers, they will never do that as their business is making electrodes for various customers not selling fuel cells ! If you have lets say a toy shop, would you buy your toys at toys r us or at a manufacturer of toys ?
The saying is :-
"The proof of the pudding is in the eating"
If you haven't eaten the pudding yet then you wouldn't expect to have had an After Eight Mint (other after dinner mints are available) because that would come with the coffee.
As for the codswallop, that would be a fish course; we had that ages ago.
I'm encouraged by the QNL.
In fact I'm encouraged whenever AB actually communicates.
I think it shows something is happening and that's got to be a good sign.
The market seems to like it as well. Onwards and upwards.
Hello - very positive and dare I say, comforting RNS this morning ! The fact that De Nora are very much on board speaks volumes for me.
Yes of course AFC are here to make money as a company and increase shareholder value. If that wasn't the case they'd either be a charity or a not-for-profit organisation. Also, the QNL was initiated for us PIs - AB doesn't have to produce this - if he didn't, we'd be reliant on RNSs which, during this phase of commercialisation would be very sparse I think. My preference would be to keep the QNLs and as SP sensitive updates come along, receive those RNSs as and when. Today's QNL told us a lot.
Have a good weekend all. Let's see what the rest of this month and quarter brings
Ive just read it all through for a second time and picked two bits to comment on. From the first section : I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO INTRODUCING TO YOU SEVERAL OF THESE NEW PRODUCTS AND APPLICATIONS THROUGHOUT THE COURSE OF 2018. I recall the use of the word THROUGHOUT in the September QNL and nothing materialised.
Secondly in the conclusion section AB draws our attention to the balance of funds available. In my experience this tends to imply that it needs more money to take that final step to commercialisation. De Nora are a big and financially strong organisation, if they are so impressed by the AFC product why have they not just acquired the company its technology and product and give us all a break.
Im looking forward to Adam Bonds interpretation of THROUGHOUT THE COURSE OF 2018. Forgive the sarcasm.
Agree re the not giving a fudge, but there again I never believe that any company is concerned about anything except making themselves money.
A bit like those recorded messages, 'your call is important to us', always been cynical on that point, mind you plenty of people who know me say I am cynical about everything.
My thought on the cash position is this..........If there are a few companies waiting in the wings to sign up once production of the fuel stack is fully up and running, then I can't see why they would not be willing to pay a certain percentage upfront on contracts. That is of course if there still are several companies waiting in the stalls champing at the bit as we were lead to believe.
Whatever happens, the next few months will either put AFC back in our good books regarding trust, or damage that trust beyond redemption, time as they say will tell.
The cash position cannot be underestimated. We could survive another 9-12 months before a raise is probably required. The only big expenditure would be delivering a system and that would mean a signed contract so the price would be a lot higher based on that. Overall very positive, but we still have to wait for results from Stade, good to see the market likes the update.
One more thing, perhaps interpretation or speculation, but we received the QNL already now expecting it end of the month, perhaps Adam has loaded or something in the backhand to still release. He is quite tactical and does things for a reason, so why send the QNL earlier. Also he mentioned the financial position of the company, so I guess no finance is due at least the first quarter 2018. Just a guess...
I had some long chats with the IR guy, seems it has shown some results. More clear, more serious, just my hint to follow up with commercial information was not yet taken in consideration, but perhaps to much going on. At least no BS anymore. Thx Adam
As published on LSE, De Nora have provided bits of the AFC RNS as part of their corporate update on their website. They must be happy with the progress made and what the electrodes will deliver. Could be a very good sign for the QNL coming soon.
Thanks pond1. I don't disagree with anything you have stated. We probably invested here around the same time. My hair was certainly and lot les grey at that point !
In reality, with AFC we're all sitting on a loss I assume as the SP is not erratic enough to warrant day trading. We all know that there a posters whose sole aim is to bring the price down for specific events such as fund raising - if only this was policed appropriately !
Again though, large investors have accountasbility in terms of where their investments are placed and as part of that due diligence you would hope that would include an assessment of (amongst others):
a) the potential of the product AFC are building
b) future growth potential
c) the management team (senior management and quality of development engineers)
It's this last point that today's discussion is referring to.
Going forward, we as investors must assess when our exit point should be, assuming we get the positive news that we all want, to at least get our original investments back and/or stick it out for the longer term (i.e. 1GW and beyond)).
Presumably, once we get a baselined and warranted product, AFC will be commercial and ready to start achieving 1Gw goals ?
I think we're all agreed also that a fund raise is very likely - my frustration is that if previous fund raises were oversubscribed then why didn't AFC max out at that stage ?
My initial investment was aimed at helping to get my kids through their senior school education. To emphasise an earlier point, my eldest is doing their A levels this summer... hey ho, more grey hair :-)
Sort of agree re major investors sticking with AB, but I put that down to the uneven playing field of information, IE they know more than we do, this is the AIM after all.
I would also AFC go to market with robustly tested, base lined and warranted products, but time is pressing both by the presence of competitors and my age. Far younger and more hair when I first went into AFC and a bit more patience.
Also sticking with a company does not always make those major investors right, just look at Carrillion.
Brewin Dolphin Ltd - 21,501,891 5.00%
Standard Life Investments - 21,331,243 4.96%
Kiltearn Partners LLP - 21,247,678 4.94%
Don't know what these current holders bought at, but they must be sitting on big big losses.
Obviously not comparing one with the other but there is a point.
PS don't go back to mushroom mode as although I disagree sometimes on your views, they are valuable as we all need opposite views and comments.
I would surmise that this is a similar scenario to the last fund raising. The share price is manipulated down to the upcoming offer price so all the late comers to the party get in at a better price than most of the long term holders here. It is the equivalent of selling the company out from underneath us, so we end up with shares that represent a lower percentage of the company, and are subsequently worth less. It is the way most AIM companies survive, but as an investor, it stinks.
I am in this for just over £60K which is currently down by 50%. Where is the good news going to come from to improve this situation? Have we got imminent contracts ready to be signed, because that is the only way I can see this improving? After being here for the last 10 years on empty promises, misleading statements and failing deadlines, how much longer are we to wait for this miracle technology to show any real signs of life?
Hi DW, I don't disagree that comms are frustratingly poor, and that's a different argument I think. However, once again, major investors (e.g. via board members appointed by Abromovic ) will know more than us and will therefore be satisfied with Mr Bond's performance ?
Don't get me wrong, I'm as frustrated as everyone else with lack of substantive updates. It can't/shouldn't go on forever. I think calling for ABs resignation/sacking is scaremongering that's all and serves little purpose for the reasons I've stated.
I'll go back to mushroom mode :-)
Southern, people are just [email protected]@@ off with the incompetend communication, this is not all on Adams side, but lately also was and is ! Of promises made and not be told the straight thruth. Things can delay and take longer, but we have had to many promises of watershed moments, mous coming and going without follow up and yes, thats also to blaime him !
We all where told to long, that shareholder value should be created and that over the last 3 years at least and have seen it evapurizing to this level today, almost where we started about 5 years ago.
I reall can't understand why are people still talking about AB's resignation/sacking ? He'd have gone long ago if our major investors had no confidence in his leadership !
Scare mongering like this, ahead of updates we've been told about is divisive in my opinion.
We all know this has been a long term investment. You only have to look at the pictures of Kore to realise that this is not something that will happen overnight. It's complex and ground-breaking technology.
Given the bad publicity that fuel cells have received historically, I'd rather AFC go to market with a robustly tested, baselined and warranted product.
It looks like someone manipulated it down and as people still dont learn from the past triggert a lot of stop losses and got what he wanted or wants. Looking at all the sells this morning it seems to be as I guess.
Again guys, if you invest here dont work with stop losses, either view it and decide or sell or stay until the end !
Totally agree, guys. Sentiment is what its all about and currently, its negative sentiment thats driving the sp.
would be nice to have some sort of positive event, (contract, sales, successful completed testing, ABs resignation [or sacking!], to help change that downward spiral.
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