Is it really a good idea to give directors share options that are slightly in the money even if the share price stays flat for a year? It'd be nice to see visible evidence of losses being stemmed before demonstrating such generosity!
"Byotrols results to March 2016 demonstrated further progress towards breakeven... Indeed, we expect adjusted EBITDA of £0.1m in FY 2017. Progress on its three core projects, endorsed by external licensing and partnership deals, leads us to believe that the company will transition from a low-margin products-based business to a higher-margin business whose technology will be adopted by third parties, thereby creating a sustainably profitable and growing business."
* Bookmark the links if you wish to 'pass the LINK/s on'.... or read later?
Deramping SHORTERS !
Shorting a rising stock....is much worse when it is done by your resident posters that seemingly are your buddies and convince 'long' holders to give up!
What many pi's fail to grasp is the extent that shorting is taking place. Often we tend to think that the 'shorter' is gone, 'he' is out of the way? You'd be wrong in most cases, for ( he ), the shorter, is often joined by others that keep the stock down !
Some stocks fall after GOOD NEWS!
Shorting or normal profit taking?
The main reason for many pi's selling, is they are afraid they'll be left in losses AND because of the fear of shorters !
Consolidating shares often sees the sp fall as the multi-bagger potential is greatly reduced. Shorters know this and 'get their digs in' with a distinct advantage
Quindell has consolidated 15 for 1 and guess what? The shares are tanking! Probably being shorted again and not just by the professionals. Ordinary investors are having a go as well (if you can't beat 'em....?).
BUT, where does that leave the genuine investor that has put stocks like QPP into their pension funds?...holding losses again!
* Once pi's know the stock is being shorted...they'll SELL UP IN THEIR DROVES !
We can't both WIN !
The 'shorts' therefore 'win' their bets, whereas the 'longs' lose the best part of their investment, possibly for some time to come......and just when you thought this couldn't go any lower, THEY'LL SHORT THE STOCK AGAIN !
* Thanks for all your support. We are now heading towards 5,000 votes!
* Investors are saying something? They are voting in their hundreds !
# The big problem with shorting is that THEY (the shorters) WOULD most likely lose most of their money IF they just 'bet' on the price going down without trying to 'help' it down?
'Catch 22' .... No one would know of an RNS to be released that will contain BAD NEWS, if they did and then 'shorted' the stock, then they are guilty of 'insider trading'.
The only sure way to short a stock and WIN is to spread dis-information to defame the company with help from other posters that are in concert with them. To ENSURE that they don't lose the biggest part of their 'short', ironically, then, they must deramp with (seemingly) believable posts.
* When the pro's do it, they simply get the media or well known 'crooked' tipsters, analysts or brokers to do it for them. (say no more).
# The campaign against shorting is for the benefit of the 'cheated' investors that cannot control their investments due to the dirty tricks played out by co-ordinated shorting !
The results will be reviewed by Govt legislators for further action! The FCA will be asked by Davide Serra to conduct an investigation into short selling practices, with the view to either ban short selling, or to be better regulated !
No, I do not think this is a turning point. There are no figures intimated just vague market expectations. All these further board changes are not inspiring. I dare say, could even be further cost cutting measures. It will be interesting to see what the directors' salaries are next time.
Clearly, there is little excitement about the future here. It is a matter of trying to keep the train chugging along in the hope that something turns up.
Have to agree Dub, but it will also take the competition some time to establish, so there is still hope here. Looking at the growth and the possible further savings, I also think they MIGHT just avoid another round of fund raising.
Nothing very surprising here. It seems to me that Byotrol have recognised that growth will be modest and that cutting costs and consolidating the corporate structure is required to give them more time.
Rentokil continues to be disappointing, but further developments with McBride and Tesco may develop.
Byotrol technology has not had the impact we had hoped for and competition with similar products now has taken edge off its potential.
Having held for this long and with price at bottom, no good reason to sell at this stage.Bottom drawer on hold for the moment.
Ah! This time next year. Yes, I have been saying that for a few years. Let's see what Nov 19 brings. It won't be anything earth shattering but it might instill a bit of hope. At the moment though, the "market" is saying, "No"
A good summary Dubuary.
It looks as though KC's Scott anti bacterial uses the same methodology as Byotrol but with a differing formulation.
Coincidentally the so far unexplained and continued decline in the BYOT share price commenced virtually from the same day as the Scott announcement in May 2013.
Our main hope now for Byotrol(I believe) is that new CEO David Traynor can galvanize all divisions whilst at the same time instigating a business plan for the company to achieve break even within 12 months.
The interims ,due in two weeks, should give some indication as to that Traynor grand plan.
That is , if he has one.
We didn't hear anything from Byotrol until end of June 2013! In particular this paragraph from the Final Results Jun 2013:
"In addition, BCP has negotiated the retention of the intellectual property on its technology resulting from the development project to date. BCP will now regain control over and responsibility for any further development work between the two companies and whilst there still remains the potential to jointly launch products, the time frame for any such collaboration is uncertain."
Well, it doesn't sound like it to me! What is going on?
Byotrol/Kimberly History of announcements (all from Byotrol - Kimberly never mentioned this collaboration in any of their literature)
June 2012 preliminary results
During the year, significant resource has been invested in moving the initiative with our Fortune 150 consumer partner from the developmental to the commercial phase. A Joint Development Agreement ('JDA') between our Fortune 150 partner and BCP was announced in May 2011. The goal of this agreement was to develop a range of products containing Byotrol's unique technology for global consumer markets. In January 2012, BCP agreed terms for a six month extension of the JDA for which BCP received a further US$0.3m. This followed the achievement of all technical milestones and the successful assessment of Byotrol's technological performance in the May 2011 JDA. The two companies are now completing consumer research and commercial analysis with the prospect of a full commercial agreement thereafter
July 2012 - agm statement
"The team at Byotrol continues to make encouraging progress and has maintained the momentum seen in the second half of last year into the current financial year.
Negotiations with our Fortune 150 consumer market partner remain on track to deliver a full commercial agreement in line with the timescales set out in our update to the market on 12 April 2012
13 August 2012 Trading Update Licensing agreement with Kimberly Clark
The Board of Byotrol plc ('Byotrol' or 'the Company'), the leading AIM listed anti-microbial hygiene company is delighted to provide an update on its agreement with its Fortune 150 partner, Kimberly-Clark Corporation (Kimberly-Clark).
Byotrol Consumer Products (BCP), Byotrol's 50% owned consumer products subsidiary, and Kimberly-Clark have agreed to enter into a full licensing agreement (Agreement). Details of the Agreement are not being disclosed at this time.
The Agreement between BCP and Kimberly-Clark follows the successful completion of the initial Joint Development Agreement with a Fortune 150 partner Byotrol announced on 31 January 2012. The new, seven-year contract is global in scope, with some exceptions including certain EU markets, and provides Kimberly-Clark exclusive intellectual property rights.
Kimberly-Clark and its well-known global brands are an indispensable part of life for people in more than 175 countries. Every day, nearly a quarter of the world's population trust K-C's brands and the solutions they provide to enhance their health, hygiene and well-being. With brands such as Kleenex, Scott, Huggies, Pull-Ups, Kotex and Depend, Kimberly-Clark holds the No. 1 or No. 2 share position in more than 80 countries.
20 Nov 2012
"We are delighted with progress in our consumer products joint venture Byotrol Consumer Products ("BCP"). Kimberly Clark has signed a global licensing deal with BCP following completion of a two year technical validation program.
"We are delighted with progress in our consumer products joint venture Byotrol Consumer Products ("BCP"). Kimberly Clark has signed a global licensing deal with BCP following completion of a two year technical validation
That K-C product is very interesting floman. And it suggests to me the worst fear of these sorts of joint ventures. Just how much Byotrol technology have they copied and tweaked out of the patent to get there?
I am not sure K-C have much incentive to buy out Byotrol, I think they would have done that before if that were on the cards. It may well be though that another big K-C rival might. I'll have to give it some thought.
I only hope the next report gives us some positive hope!
I always regarded Dr Millar as a titular CEO,taking the view that the real influence lay with BCP.This was reinforced at the AGM where Millar was unable to answer questions regarding business developments at BCP.
The parachuting in of David Traynor therefore came as no surprise.
The KC JV was instigated by BCP.
Although now lapsed,KC have commenced marketing a formulation with similar claims to Byotrol.
My (hopeful) visualization is that KC might buy out BYOT to prevent competitors from acquiring their technology.The huge BYOT stock T/O of circa seven million shares seen over recent weeks could support the theory of impending corporate action.
The interims are due some two weeks hence.
Maybe there will be some guidance at that time.
Thanks for fending off queries by sharkfin and cleaningup on LSE.
I believe they could be the same person.
Thanks indeed Dubuary.
Your research very much mirrors my own.
I believe that all the tests refer to a minimum of 1%,whereas Byotrol has a maximum of 0.5% biguanides within its formulation.
Regarding the NHS procurement figure it is public knowledge that BYOT are very focused on securing a formal maiden contract.The figure of £175 k was a figure put in the ring as a marker during the June AGM that I attended. WhinchPharma via there Athenian range are providing Byotrol with a two pronged approach. http://www.winchpharma.com/
Cleaningup on lse has only had 2 posts,both seemingly mischievous and full of half truths and duplicity; matched coincidentally by soupy.
Thanks again.It saved my becoming involved.
Just a bit more information, the paper I found showed PHMB as Cat 3 R40
Cat 3 is the lowest category as shown below, furthermore I have not found this substance to be an ingredient in Byotrol personal products, it is claimed, by Mr Soup on LSE, to be in Byosan which is not used on the body but on surfaces. The more I look at cleaningup's posting on LSE the less foundation I see for the concerns expresssed. For my purposes, my research on this is enough for me.
The European Union classification of carcinogens is contained in the Dangerous Substances Directive and the Dangerous Preparations Directive. It consists of three categories:
Category 1: Substances known to be carcinogenic to humans.
Category 2: Substances which should be regarded as if they are carcinogenic to humans.
Category 3: Substances which cause concern for humans, owing to possible carcinogenic effects but in respect of which the available information is not adequate for making a satisfactory assessment.
This assessment scheme is being phased out in favor of the GHS scheme (which has cat 1a 1B and 2)
Thanks, floman, I have just had a look at LSE. I can't find where cleaningup has specifically mentioned PHMB. He seems to be making a vague assertion about biguanides in general. He does not give any reference to the information. I have asked him to give some reference because there are loads of "biguanides".
However, since posting on LSE have found the following document
This relates not to all biguanides, but only to PHMB. I am still wading through this document but it seems to me so far that they are talking here about high dosage, ingestion. I am quite prepared to be given further information. But from what I can see cleaningup has made no case so far that I can see
Over on iii there has been an assertion that Poly(hexamethylene) biguanide (a 0.5% consistent in some Byotrol formulations), has just been reclassified as a R40 Potential Carcinogen.
This does not tally with my own research.
Do you have any observations ?
It would be helpful if we knew of "cleaningup's" source !
I may be wrong, but if I were on the board at Byotrol, I would recognise that our survival was dependent on achieving a break-even position and self sustaining business model ASAP. That means driving sales and cutting costs.
Byotrol have made their play in a number of different ways, first the hope that produict take up would be driven by health care sector. Then the "white-label" big boy partnership.
Good progress has been made but it's a hard world and I don't think people realise just how abosulutely huge and competitive this industry is. Byotrol isn't just David to Goliath its the ant on David's foot.
There is no guarantee of success but I am convinced that recent decisions make good business sense and are essential to regain gain market interest and confidence.
I agree and the reality of it is that this change will make Byotrol a lot leaner and lead to lower overheads. I think the next 12 months are going to be make or break (but, I have said that before!). I don't really know why they ever set up BCP as a separate enterprise. I wonder if they had to pay Gary Millar a golden hand-shake?
My reading is that the consumer side is where the action is for this company and there was only likely to be one winner in a shoot out for the top job. We now have a CEO with a decent stake in the company and he is locked in for 2 years. I am sure it wasn't personal....just business...
I may buy more on the dips as I feel confident further progress will be made before the year is out. I could be wrong so DYOR.
There are two reasons why I am holding. (as I posted on LSE) Call me naive but every time I reassess Byotrol I seem to come out positive. But I am ready to recognise the risk and the potential loss,
1st the product. But before I describe it, lets just remember that "Byotrol" is not just an ingredient - it is a technology. Byotrol's patent describes the ability to combine different biocides at a molecular level to produce unique products for specific purposes. If one biocide is unacceptable it can simply be replaced by another. The combined effect is that the Byotrol product destroys germs in such a way that they cannot evolve to become immune to it.
I wanted to test the effect of the product. Take the foam hand cleanser (remember the great track record at Monroe Hospital of using Byotrol) It is very difficult for an individual to test a product like this because we do not have laboratory experiments at our disposal. I chose a very simple test. I am aware that body odor is caused by bacterial excretions when bacteria growth is fostered by human sweat. Traditional control is achieved by literally clogging the pores so sweat cannot reach skin surface and aluminium is an ingredient of most deodorants. I bought the Byotrol foam hand cleanser. I used it as a deodorant on the basis that if it killed bacteria and had a residual effect it should be a very effective personal deodorant. I tried it and it is, I have been using it for 5 years. I would never go back to a traditional aluminium based pore clogging deodorant. Don't believe me? Try it!
So, that's the product. Now the second reason. The directors. Ralph Kugler (formerly at Unilever), Ted Messinger (formerly Astrazenica) Nick Martel (adviser to Maunby, broad experience) Duncan Grosvenor (finance director and relevant experience in biotech) David Traynor (broad experience in relevant areas) all have the combined skills to make things happen with this Company
Look. You have here a proven viable patented technology that is hugely valuable in these days of threats from micro-organisms developing immunity to anti-biotics.
More importantly we have a board of directors, and now a consolidated Company (Byotrol and BCP) that has the technology and the business expertise to make this happen.
This is still a share to watch. I feel I have done my research, I recognise the challenges, but I am confident that 20p is more likely than 3 p
I am looking forward to the November report and happy to hold as a long term shareholder.
l agree, Makubwa. Although, you may not need 6 months, I shall wait for the next report in November to see what they have planned.
There are some problems that simply a "change of management" can't solve.
I do feel that Byotrol cannot make it without some huge investment in distribution and marketing and that's what I thought Gary Millar's skills were. If they can't boost sales and revenue, selling on to a bigger company is probably the only other hopeful outcome.
This whole Byotrol experience has been excruciatingly dull and painful for us all..I was about to sell out,but will now give Traynor 6 months to start getting the share price up.I note he has just over 2% of the stock and is an ex investment banker.Hopefully that means he will look to sell the company to a major (Rentokil?) and put us all out of our collective misery and torpor.I wish I had sold 3 years ago.
Ah Ha! So, the BCP acquisition, wasn't Byotrol taking over BCP it is BCP taking over Byotrol. Same difference, I suppose. I wonder what "other interests" Gary Millar is pursuing? More time with the family?
Obviously, things have not been so cosy at Byotrol?
It's anybody's guess where this Company is going - but I think time has almost run out.
We will probably never know what is actually happening or why behind the scenes.
Personally, I am pleased with this development. I have always been a bit uncomfortable with BYotrol only having a 50% interest isn BPC - it seemed to me to be a complication in distributing revenue and ultimately profits.
I recognise this could well indicate that the other shareholders of BPC simply wanted out and Byotrol have negotiated this deal. But they are holding for 24 months so there should not be undue pressure on price now.
I think when market has time to consider will generally be good thing for Byotrol.
I am still holding, and hoping that 6p is going to be the bottom
The SP apears to have stabilised and a new contract or two should provide some much needed forward traction. While there's money to be made getting into a promising operation rather late, it's a lot more rewarding to be in early.
To start with I would like to take you back to 2005 when Byotrol filed the admission document:
"The Directors believe the current environment in the global biocide market is very favourable to the Company and that several conditions are in place to support its growth.
These include: (...)
Public concern over biocide pesticide residues is increasing and is a major force for market change. Recent concern over waste water residues resulting from Triclosan use (...) and widespread concern over environmental impact of pesticide and biocide waste all favour Byotrol's technology."
Conclusion: Byotrol will benefit if users of Triclosan stop using it.
And now the REALLY good news for Byotrol:
The FDA is and has been reviewing if Triclosan is safe to use since may 2013.
Meanwhile it has allready been proven that use of Triclosan will lead to bacterial resistance.
This probably was reason for Procter & Gamble not to await the outcome of the FDA review and announced earlier this month to eliminate Triclosan from all their consumer products by 2014 AND for Johnson and Johnson to do the same by 2015 !!
For your information triclosan is very widely used in soaps, cosmetics, dental care, deodorants, cleaning products etc. etc.
What are those poor producers of Triclosan containing products to do?
You tell me. Turn to Byotrol?
We sure could do with a P&G, J&J etc. contract.
Besides that it can't hurt if we're losing a competing biocide that is broadly used on a large scale.
The story is getting better every day. Recently some trouble with Dettol going on and now Triclosan really under fire.
I'm thinking: Byotrol could do with a blue day monday (and the rest of the week, month...)
The market is there - but can Byotrol get there in time? There is now plenty of competition
"Some of the best ways to protect against antibiotic-resistant bugs are preventive, said Daniel McQuillen, a member of the Infectious Disease Society of America and a senior staff physician in infectious diseases at Lahey Hospital & Medical Center in Burlington, Massachusetts.
That includes encouraging hand-washing and in-hospital programs to evaluate whether the antibiotics being prescribed are appropriate, he said.
These kinds of interventions were probably what caused a decline in the incidence of methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus, or MRSA infections, according to separate study, published in JAMA Internal Medicine."
Byotrol shares have been sluggish at best for a few weeks now.
Nevertheless,a string of recent buys have absorbed a fair chunk of the overhang .
The offer price is now inching upwards and any further interest could see the BYOT share price regain notable upward momentum,possibly as soon as next Monday.
A positive RNS at some stage would seal any renaissance.
Seems that volumes are up today as people buy for their ISAs. I've effectively doubled up by doing the same. I couldn't resist as these should rise on any good news...and I made a nice little bit on a CPP punt last week. I fully expect some good news before year end, whether it be increased sales through Rentokil or a deal with another big name. Anyway, we'll see what happens.
Boots are doing a 'buy one get one half price' deal on their Anti-viral Hand Foam...worth promoting to friends and family.
Next Monday is the 5th August. The weekend papers will be full of the new ISA rules (put your AIM lovelies where they may flourish without losing petals). I am guessing that there will be people wading in
on Monday with old money recycled but also investors with new money to pick up a few sleeping ducks.
This could well give us a little lift.... We'll see.
Well put BigBobby20.
I have only been investing over the past 6 months yet still feel chastened by the continuing fall in the SP;although for the time being at least,some stability has reemerged.
I felt that the last marked sell of 25,000 shares just 6 seconds after the AGM had commenced,was designed,by the vendor,to stimulate a further downturn.
If so then they were unsuccessful.
Possibly our persistent seller could be former(deposed and possibly embittered)CEO David McRobbie,whom we know had earlier taken his holding below 3% and who expressed his displeasure at Byotrol's AGM over its lack of any significant progress.
An encouraging newsflow,allied to the forecast accelerating level of revenues together with the approach of break even should do wonders for the share price imo,so we should not depair or jump ship.
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