CLDN is a long term investment, and as said does do well over this time frame, the markets are doing well at the moment, People seem to be going for risky investments and defensive shares seem to be rated lowly.
Any market nervousness could see this reversed.
Thanks for your views - it has been helpful. Interesting that the sp went up yesterday while much of the market was having a wobble. I'm going to hang in here as now is clearly the wrong time to sell and I take on board the long term nature of this trust. I just hope the bod and investment managers have another look at what they are doing and have been doing of late.
PS they aim to outperform the FTSE over a 5 year horizon. Shorter term their KPIs refer to RPI+ type returns (I know they didn't manage these either). Don't sell now is my advice. If it's the wrong investment for you wait for the current upswing in 'value' stocks to play out for a few more months. DYOR etc and good luck
The Caysers are long term investors and overall the 'pools' approach has worked well since Wyatt took over back at the start of the decade. As far as stocks are concerned they're very much value investors which as a theme has had a poor 12 - 24 months so it's not surprising the 'income' and to a lesser extent the 'quoted' pool underperformed. Looking very quickly through the presentation slides I see they took a big haircut on the valuation of Gala Bingo and their funds pool did okay except for it pretty much being totally associated with the USD which weakened vs sterling in the reporting period. As for currency hedging some do it really well (RCP for example) but in my experience if it's not a core competence then positions can go sour very quickly to a costly extent. My personal philosophy over 25 years of investing has always been to have a significant exposure to overseas equities because besides everything else sterling has been steadily depreciating since the end of WW2. Note that sterling has weakened a fair bit since March 31st. CLDN is never a short term investment but overall it has a place in my portfolio as I think the longer term horizon of the Caysers will pay off, especially during inevitable dips and bear markets. Don't expect the discount ever to get really low due to the vagaries of the 'Cayser Factor' (they'd start fighting like cats and dogs over who's shares got sold in any buy back) but IMO a 20% discount after a period in which value investing has been out of favour represents a decent entry point for anyone looking to get in for ideally a minimum of 5 years.
I've had a quick look this morning and would be interested in others views. Initial thoughts include the lack of FX hedging - why? NAV reduction primarily due to £55 special div - NO- only in part. Aim to out perform FTSE all share - well do the graph yourself using the chart tool here and see for yourself, particularly the last few weeks. £208M in cash and can't think what to do with it? Really?
Is this all a bit complacent?
I've only been in for under a year so would appreciate the views of others but I'm not too impressed
Thanks for your views. Yes I got the 100p divi but am currently 328p down on my purchase price which is a concern to say the least. I wont be buying any more although I appreciate others may see this as a good entry point. I'll hang in there for another year and see if this turns around as it seems the unquoted element is more of a driver than I thought. Thanks again.
You are right in that this last year has been quite pedestrian compared to the other years, although as said people are chasing excitement at the moment.
The un quoted pool seems to be the driver of NAV and if they make no sales on these holdings NAV only goes up a bit, some of the un quoted stuff has sold for far higher than they were on the books for in the past.
It's hard to control the discount to NAV with CLDN as any re purchase in shares Pushes the Family holdings over the holding limits and I think they already have special permission to hold a bigger % than initially allowed, its a shame because at such a big discount it would make sense to start buying there own shares.
Yes I agree performance has been rather poor this year;although much better on a bit longer time frame.
One point I might make if you have only held for a year you perhaps need to take into account 100p special dividend paid from memory last July (in addition to normal divis) when working out total return.
I am currently holding as a long term investment and am making modest additional purchases from time to time.
Almost a year since I invested and I've a question for those longer serving supporters:- Should I stay or take the hit and go? Now trading about 21% below NAV with the market at an all time high???? How does anybody manage that?? Any input from those wiser than me would be welcome.
As long as you're prepared to hold for reasonable period (2 -5 years) you'll have no problems with this one. A discount of ca. 20% is good value for this stock as the current investment managers are well proven. I can't ever see this trading anywhere close to NAV due to the Cayser factor (they control just under half of the shares) but as long as they keep investing diligently (no one gets it right all the time) we'll see a lot more Sloane Clubs, Park Holidays etc days when assets are realised for well above their generally conservative published asset values.
It's Caledonia that reduced its stake in Polar Capital not the other way round. they've been reducing their stake for a while now and Polar has been another fantastic investment for the team. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for any share buybacks though, the Cayzer factor is complicated and basically an inhibitor on buy backs. The bounce today is IMO down to selling another unquoted asset, The Sloane Club, at well above recent NAV. 6 or 7 years ago while looking for accommodation for a few nights in London I checked out the Club in the forlorn hope that there might be some sort of shareholder discount (there wasn't). What I saw, from an accommodation perspective, was a throwback to the 60s/70s type hotel with no en suite facilities and quite basic rooms. Presumably the needed investment has been made, the margins boosted (it was about £80 a night IIRC) and the place has been sold on realising the value of both the ongoing business and the underlying real estate. Well done to Will Wyatt and the team, again.
Always difficult to decide on when to sell a privately held asset ;but Caledonia seem to have got a very full price for the Sloane Club based on likely profit potential & growth of property value.
Interesting to see what they do with the cash......
18% is a wide discount by recent standards but not by historical standards. Remember the fund contains unquoted investments (where the NAV is subject to change quite quickly), and funds that invest in unquoted investments, and you have the huge Cayzer family block which inhibits normal discount control mechanisms (buybacks). Add to that the fact that the cross shareholding with Sofina is being untangled (see resent RNSs) resulting in a fair bit of selling these last few months then we may be at a point where it would be worthwhile topping up but I won't be for now. Best of luck PS I've held these for 15 years.
There's been a general broadening of discounts/narrowing of premiums in the IT sector for a while now. Investors getting a little nervous with market levels. Couple that with the Cayzer factor which IMO also pretty much prevents the discount disappearing on this trust and you get where we are. The NAV progress continues to be excellent.
It has paused for breath now because a whole pound a share has been taken and given as a special dividend,but the nav has grown so much over the last few years they can afford to give some back to shareholders.
The share price and nav has done really great over the last five years and the last 12 months has done great.
Don't know what you expect from a investment but cldn has beat my expectations every year for a long time now.
I jumped in a few days ago because of the divi so am quite please that the drop of 102p is lower than the divi of 139.9p. I did try to buy more but HL were quoting a higher price by about 15p/share - no idea why. Anyway it looks consistent in performance and there are few shares that can claim a divi rise spanning 50 years so I'm happy to stay a while and may even add.
I think last time I bought Discount to NAV was North of 20%.
But saying that, in rampant Bull Market when any value is difficult to find, 17% looks OK.
If we get a pull back, CLDN won't be exempt, but we care as long term holders?
Of course not, we'll just add more.
I'm my usual cautious manner, if I wasn't a hard buyer at this time, I'd be knibbler deploying cash that I wasn't holding for big sell off. That might be tomorrow, it might be 24 months away, either way I'll be adding more at some point.
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