You wrote while declaring any capital losses against my Dividends paid
This raised two questions regarding your tax position in my mind:-
1. This statement implies that you do not hold your investment within a tax shelter like a SIPP or an ISA ?. Because if you did then no tax would be payable on your dividends.
2. That you think that you can offset any capital losses against your dividends for tax purposes ?. From what I know of the latest dividend taxation rules I dont believe this to be the case I am prepared to be proven wrong, but dont think I am.
Given the size of your investment, prospective dividends and the fact that you are still working - if I am correct about points 1 and 2 above then you could well end up paying a considerable amount of tax as a result, if things go well.
I am not a tax expert and you DEFINITELY shouldnt take anything I say on tax as the gospel truth. But I strongly suggest that you may need to consult a tax expert to ensure that you dont end up paying significant amounts of tax on any investment gains.
I have spent many years accumulating all of my money with ISAs. In consequence I have no tax returns to do and no income or dividend taxation at all to pay on my investments. Everything I make investing is completely tax free.
Use of SIPPs is also really worthwhile considering while you are still working (as you are) because of the tax related contribution that you receive based on your any contributions that you make. SIPPs can also be a really good way of providing for any dependants or relatives in a way that is not subject to inheritance tax.
If you have never investigated these topics then you really should as IMHO they are a critically important feature of effectively managing your money in a tax efficient way.
Now just maybe you are completely up to speed on these topics and I have got the wrong end of the stick. If so then just forget everything I have said above. But reading your post lead me to suspect not, which is why I have raised the topic.
We all entitled to our opinion's good or bad I maybe was a little harsh with my earlier posts
Today all my talk about Dividends that's because I am a shareholder
We all have options and we may be around the 160p mark come ex-dividend date in May so I could sell picking up 23p point profit and start again
Flick of the coin British Gas shares may be below my average, come May time I may as well stick to been a long term investor, Monthly topping up while happily pick up the Dividends and re-invest money.
Over the next few years compounding all returns, you can end up with a nice pot once the tide turns and while declaring any capital losses against my Dividends paid :-)
I could very well easily live with 10p annual dividend here, ( show me a return on any savings account that can match this ) I am in lucky position I plan to work at least another 5 years so the risk and reward is on my side short term or long term and will be happy to ride out any massive drops like corrections on the market
Also what really helps me and attracts this Dividend hunter . I like it here :-) I am attracted to this love the unloved FTSE 100
Well thats a highly optimistic view of how dividend payments work, but I guess I should have expected nothing else from you, Mr Optimist !.
Yes its true in most cases stocks recovers their XD drop within a few days, or sometimes weeks.
BUT this happening is critically dependent upon the market perception of the stock AND whether the dividend was affordable. If these factors arent in place then the share price may not recover and indeed may go the other way. This is a risk that always needs to be factored into any dividend paying situation. There is no universal rule that guarantees stock price recovery, if only there was.
Of course given your the only way from here is up view of this stock I can kind of understand your perspective, but again its not a view that I would ever take not for any stock, not just this one.
Ill leave you counting your £13,000. I just hope it doesnt turn out to be just £13,000 of your capital back !. If something seems to be too good to be true then often it is ...
Having thought long and hard I might have a punt on these in May, but only if the Feb results arent too horrible. And in May because I would buy on the XD date to get more shares at a lower price and gain a bit of further downside insurance. They may well be storming away by then who knows, if so there are lots of other fish in the sea.
Personally I am still a bit concerned at the possibility of a FTSE correction though, and if that happens well probably everything will drop a bit including Centrica. But who knows eh ?.
Dividend 8p Share price drop < 8p Result - Happiness
Dividend 8p Share price drop > 8p Result - Misery
The dividend position will be confirmed in the Feb 22 preliminary results Im pretty sure, but they dont go XD till May I think which is more than 3 months away right now.
I have read a lot of articles about Centrica of late and am starting to come around to your view that it is probably undervalued. But thats no guarantee that the share price will improve in the short term, in the long term maybe. In the short term I think that its those Feb results that will be the driver. Not long to wait for those.
Must admit I believe this is oversold. I accept issues to resolve but believe more upside from this point on, so can see were CB is coming from. A bit like ULE oversold, down to 11.50 from 18.00, already back to 15.00 level. CNA may take a bit more time, but patience will prevail here.
"Yes I remember getting out of Lloyds, at the time I thought that they were unlikely to do very much for a while. And I thought that the opportunity cost was too high. I wanted to invest in LGEN and SLA so I sold Lloyds and bought those with the money. Being a masochist I continue to track the results of that decision. Right now while my LGEN and SLA are well in profit had I stayed with Lloyds I would be better off by about £300. But the dividends are better with LGEN & SLA, at the moment anyway
But I guess that the main point of my previous post here was just to point out (once again) just how far CBr and I are apart in the investment universe. So far I think that light would never make it from his position to mine !. Or indeed vice versa."
Thanks. Comment understood. There are a few different approaches that can be no less profitable over time, depending on the individual. No one approach trumps all.
For eg. some people are highly profitable with short-term leveraged trading, using TA, etc. (Soi is one), whilst some of the best investors like Warren Buffett remained always averse to using any leverage & his method rarely uses TA. Others use a mixed approach & I know Soi does too.
I'm pleased to read that your LGEN & SLA continue to be well in profit &, as one fellow trader to another with according respect, I don't mean to knock anyone. I merely take opportunity to remind in general that it's never too late for anyone of us (not least me) to improve in this game.
From my take, as an aside, selling near above support levels isn't the best time for any of us, unless anticipating seriously bad news. That's one advantage of looking at charts. Though they're by no means a foolproof science, they do offer interesting snapshots of ongoing sentiment & likely future buying or selling levels.
I wish you all the best with your current investments or trades!
Yes I remember getting out of Lloyds, at the time I thought that they were unlikely to do very much for a while. And I thought that the opportunity cost was too high. I wanted to invest in LGEN and SLA so I sold Lloyds and bought those with the money. Being a masochist I continue to track the results of that decision. Right now while my LGEN and SLA are well in profit had I stayed with Lloyds I would be better off by about £300. But the dividends are better with LGEN & SLA, at the moment anyway
But I guess that the main point of my previous post here was just to point out (once again) just how far CBr and I are apart in the investment universe. So far I think that light would never make it from his position to mine !. Or indeed vice versa.
I wish him all the best on his latest adventure. But I could never invest the way he does.
Sorry but your investment approach is just too scary for me, I wouldnt be able to sleep at night. Not that I sleep much now but that's getting old for you."
Mind that unlike some of us, CB is invested here just above very long-term lows.
For balance, as I recall, a few months back you sold all your LLOY's at a loss just above recent support levels. I was sorry that you did so at those levels, but as for everyone else in this game, it's your money, your call.
CB, despite taking some stick, remained dug in during some torrid times with LLOY when a few others were calling for falls to circa sub-60 & possible 56. He finally exited with yet another profit.
I've seen CB do similar with BARC & HSBA. That's not to say it won't occasionally backfire, as it sometimes does for all of us, & that he won't have to stay invested for longer than desired. But by & large, looking beyond his occasional jesting & banter, he does quite okay with his approach.
Comments on these CNA Bill Boards remind me of the time holding HSBC was hitting below 450p in 2016 :-)
Dividend cuts on the way blah blah blah
I honestly feel we see 8p here next month
any way thanks Prev for posting :-)
Its always nice to hear from others who have the Technical Brains
I just buy, if I feel its cheap or oversold over the last few months, and only touch FTSE 100 Stocks, even If need be I will hold for years, but only really planned for 3 months to 12 hold here, then its back to Lloyds in 2019 ;-) hopefully PPI will over coming to an end by then another £2 Billion needed at least for the next 18 Months I not planning to pay for it so happy to buy here and pick the Juicy Dividend short term
The total value, or equity value, is then the sum of the present value of the cash flows, which in this case is £9,289. The last step is to then divide the equity value by the number of shares outstanding. If the stock is an depositary receipt (represents a specified number of shares in a foreign corporation) then we use the equivalent number. This results in an intrinsic value of £1.66, which, compared to the current share price of £1.38, we find that Centrica is about right, perhaps slightly undervalued at a 16.94% discount to what it is available for right now.
I have to say that in the past when I've run with a positive view that didn't have a sound basis and plan surrounding it, I suffered my largest losses. I hope you're right. Good luck .
Out of interest, do you look at charts at all? Also, do you have an exit plan or will you just hold through whatever comes and hope the divi covers any drops (if there are any)?
It's got absolutely nothing to do with me, but you're trying to generate a positive feeling on the BB so I feel comfortable asking about your rationales etc. I think I'm getting a bit stressed for you!
CB, what's your actual rationale for buying, topping up etc? Is it just this chirpy, upbeat belief that 'everything will be alright'? Small changes in temperature within the winter period are not going to change the fortunes of CNA. Why are you so excited about this share?
That's taking nowt for granted of course, as brokers also get it badly wrong as do the rest of us. But on average, most of them target a decent gradual recovery later on for those prepared to ride out further undulations. As we appreciate, more sharp dips before then can't be ruled out
Also, still no major hedgies declaring short positions on CNA. That remains 0% for now.
I must say Shotry that I very much agree with the views expressed in your post. But never mind just maybe CBr will pull it off ?.
FTSE investors are getting increasingly edgy I think with all eyes on the US waiting for a breakdown. Any company reporting that doesnt hit all of the balls clear out of the stadium is getting punished, how will Centrica do ?. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm we'll just have to wait and see.
I am banking the update to be better than the last one, and confirm increasing profits last Quarter due the freezing temperatures in UK and North America
Other from that I agree ALL shares are a gamble but I feel shes found her bottom and a little bounce on the cards over the next 3 months here IMHO if not happy to pick up the dividend and hang around a little longer until one better day here
Crimebuster, you seem over optimistic. They've stated they'll maintain the divi and if they do, the SP is likely to drop by 8.4 p if that's what the divi is. There's no certainty it will quickly recover from there so that's not necessarily 'profit' for an investor. They've also stated that they'll maintain the divi longer term even with earnings below levels normally considered prudent for this move. I think you have to consider that the welfare of the company is more important than Iain Conns comments. He could leave, or be pushed for example. I'd have said that if income doesn't at least stabilise and preferably increase, the divi will have to be cut for the sake of the company, maybe not this time round, but it's not likely to be far away. If Conn was to go even if it was presented in a positive light, or if institutional investors believed he was going to go, I think you'd see lower prices on this share. If profits come in below expectations, again the divi will look unsustainable and SP will fall. For your level of optimism I'd say you have to be expecting better operating profits (where's that coming from) or a takeover rumour/approach. For the moment I'd say buying this one is speculative, risky and could be with your for a while.
"Anyone know the reason for this , any news out there I missed ? I been at work all morning and was a little surprised we are down so much in early trading
Crazy I know BUT I was was expecting 150p this week due the cold weather we having this week
Hoping fellow Dividend hunting investors will start buying for the 8.4p dividend cos if the cold period carries on I am in no doubt we see the Juicy one here in May 2018 :-)
OK back to work :-("
Occasionally there's no tangible reason, bar that a stock is stuck in a tight trading range, whilst bigger investors that could move a price significantly continue avoiding it due to lingering uncertainty about fundamentals.
I wish it were otherwise from self-interest, but the reality is that even a high divi yield is only part of the picture & appeal of a stock. Until major investors start buying again, & some seem to be waiting for CNA's next update on 22nd Feb, this may struggle for longer, bar seeing a few pence up & down.
I'll be selling one SB long of 5 held & also my real shares, both in profit, on any rise towards 150 when we see it.
But to each their own on this as none of us has a crystal ball. - All the best!
Important message from the Financial Conduct Authority:
Posting inside information that is not public knowledge, or information that is false or misleading, may constitute market abuse.
This could lead to an unlimited fine and up to seven years in prison.
If you have any information, concerns or queries about market abuse, click here.
The content of the messages posted represents the opinions of the author, and does not represent the opinions of Interactive Investor Trading Limited or its affiliates and has not been approved or issued by Interactive Investor Trading Limited.
You should be aware that the other participants of the above discussion group are strangers to you and may make statements which may be misleading, deceptive or wrong.
Please remember that the value of investments or income from them may go down as well as up and that the past performance of an investment is not a guide to its performance in the future.
The discussion boards on this site are intended to be an information sharing forum and is not intended to address your particular requirements.
Whilst information provided on them can help with your investment research you need to consider carefully whether you should make (or refraining from making) investment or other decisions based on what you see without doing further research on investments you are interested in.
Participating in this forum cannot be a substitute for obtaining advice from an appropriate expert independent adviser who takes into account your circumstances and specific investment needs in selected investments that are appropriate for you.