It doesn't make a lot of sense to me unless you put it down to fear over political factors in Nicaragua. The main fear is 'delay', although as we already know MC was called in for a few final (hopefully) questions AFTER the protests started. Thus as the moment it looks like they are irrelevant to the approvals process.
Quite frankly, whoever ends up running the place will still need economic development. So, as long as MC answers the questions I can still see the permits being issued by the end of June. If they don't land by June 30th then I could see a few people start to lose faith. For the record I did think we would see something by the end of this month but it looks like my expectations at the time were far too early.
Still a buy although it's starting to feel like an interminably long process. I bought into the Falklands Oil story (DES in 2003) so no one can accuse me of lacking patience, but there are limits. As one wag on the RKH board remarked recently. Words to the effect of 'I bought-in dreaming of it buying me a sports car but now my dreams are more of a portable mobility scooter..'
We live in hope that we will actually make some money out of it before retirement.
Does anyone have an opinion why this is so volatile? Basically over the last year (and much longer) we have apparently been edging closer and closer to a decision on permits, which everyone "thinks" is a no brainer (just like OXS right?). So why does the price fluctuate so much? you should assume(or at least I do)that everyone here is here for the permit decision. So day to day issues, POG, local unrest.. in theory shouldn't affect the price so much.
Clearly there's a floor in my logic as it is quite volatile.
There are always risks in politics, but if you analyse the situation delaying a decision to issue the permits would be irrational. There seems to be multiple reasons for the protests but underneath all of them is economic development. They need projects like Condor to deliver the taxes that fuel their social security system. Those pensions that were reinstated a few weeks ago are not affordable without it. And its far bette to have people working than having enough free time to protest!
There might be a bit of caution regarding giving locals another reason to protest but I reckon the government really wants this project to happen.
Credits to AndrewFfoulkes on LSE, From Mark to his email circulation list:
A bit more detail....
..... despite the political unrest, I had a meeting 2 weeks ago with 2 Ministries to discuss the findings from their site inspection. We will submit the technical information by 31st May 2018. Assuming the technical information is okay and there are no further questions, the Project will be signed off as technically okay and goes to the Minister and President for approval. A date for a Public Consultation should be set and permits granted a couple of weeks later.
The risk is that the political situation delays the permitting process. A Dialogue table for mediation and finding a way forward is set for tomorrow. I don£t have a crystal ball, the situation is very tense. Talks could breakdown or go smoothly and a settlement reached.
The geologists are excited about the high grade rock chips and new discoveries. We continue to believe the current 2.4M oz gold resource can be doubled and La India Project hosts a 5M oz Gold District.
"Detailed geological mapping and vein characterisation continued along several veins, which included the collection of over 150 rock chip samples. On the America Vein Set, 24 rock chip samples returned gold values greater than 5.0g/t including
I had become aware of this, which was the reason for the 'business as usual' post. Maybe it was too cryptic.
The sense I had is that the protests are irrelevant to the company progressing. If anything the local agencies may even want to accelerate permit approval, possibly to present a new mine and 700+ jobs as a PR coup in an economy that desperately needs positive economic development news.
Approval by mid-year is still on the cards from what I can see, and maybe even before that. There may be a few regrets from former holders in the next couple of months. I for one will be sticking with it.
It is good to see from the updated results that they have both reduced costs for the last 3 months but more importantly that Condor have held follow on meetings on May 2nd, 2018,with the Inter-Institutional Committee, 2 weeks after all the troubles started. This is relatively good news as it appears everything is continnuing and on track.
"at the offices of the Ministry of Energy and Natural Resources to discuss additional information required by the Inter-Institutional Committee following their site visit inspection on March 13th, 2018. The Company intends to submit the technical information by May 31st, 2018."
If they complete submission by the end of the month then we can hope these are the final questions and that Condor can satisfy them. Mark Child in the opening remarks is confident so while he has not divulged what these questions relate to it does show he is confident with that information that they can answer them completely.
I checked for news this morning and it does look like things are starting to settle down. They seemed to have agreed to establish a 'Truth Commission' to investigate the casualties of the unrest last week, which I read as progress.
B2B Gold is of course producing in El Limon and La Libertad. I doubt if either side want to stop the tax dollars coming in so I wouldn't have expected anything more than a 'flash-in-the-pan' move for B2B. It's also producing outside of Nicaragua as well which would dampen any moves. Still, it's good to see that shareholders there don't see the politics having much of an effect.
I think you are right on the permit decision being pushed back a few weeks though. Prior to the unrest I would have said the window on granting had already opened up, although now I'm guessing June rather than May. We'll see. It could be that all stops are pulled to get the Nicaraguan economy moving. The relaxation of those pension reforms are not going to pay for themselves.
Looks like a few dip buyers are coming in. If it keeps up we could see it back over 50p in the next couple of weeks.
When you look at B2Gold, that is exposed to Nicaragua, they are up 5% on the week so this has certainly not impacted into the other main players in Nicaragua who are up and processing gold, although they have a spread of mines elsewhere.
Sadly for Mark Child, who in my view has blown the last few years wasting time on submitting permit plans that were not going to fly, and only recently submitted one that looks to tick all the right boxes he now finds himself caught up in potential permit delay.
i was not expecting permits to be released before June but the question is of course how the current situation will potentially impact that or not.
Certainly for the government to find the funds to keep the pension reforms as they are they are going to need to plug the gap so you should think the government might look through the order book and try and bring forward some potential tax raising projects as they are going to need it.
Certainly the people in Nicaragua are also going to want to raise income so in some way the government and people of Nicaragua will probably agree that neither of them want to pay for the pensions themselves so looking to foreign inward investment and projects to bring in some cash should come to the fore.
The $120m injection needed to get this processing plant up and then the 10s of millions in taxes they would get when Mark gets his 100k baseline gold operation moving is most definitely one of the clearest ways Nicaragua can move forward. Therefore i think projects of this kind will get more focus so Ortega can go to his people and show how he can deliver and that the people do not need to pay any more.
However the next 2-3 weeks of wrangling and reconciliation will decide how quickly that might come but it looks the landscape of the uprising is also looking at a peaceful exit as there has been little real violence over the last week.
Certainly the price of Condor is at very low levels, almost 20p of the current price is the value of the built up tax losses but sitting on billions of gold is not quite the same as having a permit to dig it up. while i think this stock will be volatile i am still inclined to think come end of June this could have been a very good time to have topped up.
As originally expected, it looks like writing off this week was the right call. Buying has been too weak to allay the drip, drip of small sells. I'm not really seeing anything new but the somewhat delayed reporting by the FT and other mainstream news organisations is probably not helping.
Clamber through the doomsday rhetoric and it does look like there are some positives on the Nicaraguan front.
From what I can see:
- Ortega has conceded on early elections.
- Catholic Church has apparently been asked to mediate.
- Ortega has ordered dozens of the 200 protesters who were arrested during the clashes to be released, and lifted broadcasting curbs his government imposed on independent media.
I thought that we might see buyers coming back in next week but it looks like we already have interest returning.
Again, it comes down to how you see the situation. Will it delay the granting of permits or expedite them? My sense is that the Nicaraguan people want to see concrete actions rather than talk so I err on the latter proposition. Still, you can never really tell. It wouldn't be the first time that politicians have been caught in that 'deer in headlights' moment (i.e. paralysis for fear of doing something wrong).
Nothing likely this week but I suspect that the permit window will reopen a week from now.
I reckon that quite a few of those who sold yesterday will leave it a few days, until the dust settles, and probably come back in next week. Based on yesterday's move the upside potential could be a lot greater than the downside. If riots only produce an 8p drop what will the permits and the prospect of a takeover deliver? I know someone who sold half his holding yesterday but doesn't want to risk losing the potential upside on the other half. This could be a situation familiar to a few people.
Yesterday's price move was obviously unrelated to Condor's situation with respect to the permits. It clearly looked more like a knee-jerk and it many respects it's not difficult to rationalise a move in th eopposite direction.
Think about it.
Assuming that the move was entirely based on perceptions of the Nicaraguan situation (i.e. not the fact the PoG slipped back last week), then I guess we have two camps.
The sky is falling; It's Venezuela mark II; The Nicaraguan government will be totally focused on allaying discontent in the country and won't be interested in anything else.
The sky is falling; It's Venezuela mark II; The Nicaraguan government will be totally focused on allaying discontent in the country and will need to pull its finger out and do something.
Pension changes were the catalyst for the violence but the underlying cause is poverty, which of course is related to low GDP. At 'people level' this translates into a lack of well paid jobs. The government obviously wants to save money on running its social care system, pensions included, so it needs to promote industry. When you are in that situation do you:
1) Yap Yap Yap but not actually delivery anything (the usual political response)?
2) Do something. Like, for example, grant permits to miners across the country? In other words create a bit of positive PR about creating jobs.
In 'normal' times politicians prefer to yap but when there are riots on the street even they can't get away with dithering. They must actually act.
My argument, therefore, is that this might actually expedite the granting of permits rather than add further delay. The Nicaraguan government desperately needs some positivity or I've no doubt it will fall sooner rather than later.
As for Condor, I'm sure that enquiries will be made over the next few days and we might even see an RNS. Whether it would say 'no change to the situation' or 'permits are expected to be delayed another six months' remains to be seen. I guess we will have to see.
As you no doubt have guessed I see this as a hold situation. It's a frustrating distraction but I tend to think it will blow over in a week or two. We might yet see the permits come through by June.
I think the Condor investors got fright yesterday but doing some research today or Twitter/Facebook violence has largely stopped and wider reading Daniel Ortega only recently got re-elected with 72% of the vote so he is hardly unpopular in grand scheme of things.
i think with the reversal of the social security changes he wanted to make will probably mean this will probably blow over. We will see but probably a good bloody nose for Daniel Ortega to listen more.
He will probably now need to focus on increasing government revenue and one of the good ways of doing that is increasing direct inward investment and signing off permits to gold producers so i suspect this should be positive.
It is interesting as Danial Ortega is very left wing and his social policy is very much to improve the rights of poor people so we will see but i think from what i have read this is unlikely to spiral further as his last election was far better than before and he has been around a good time now.
My other interest in this company is that compared to B2Gold, that is the major gold miner in Nicaragua, and worth $3.6bn based on around a 800,000 ounze per year output. It is not hard to see that if Mark Child can hit 100,000 ounzes and then 200,000 ounzes at both a higher grade than B2Gold and at lower cost of extraction then assuming all that is hit this will make our current $50m (80 times less than B2Gold) look quite small. There is also a huge tax loss Condor is sitting on that is worth £15m alone so that is also a nice buffer.
Interesting times but the price hit 43p for a very short period and is now back to 46p so we will see as if the violence subsides and based on the limited impact to any other Nicaraguan business this is probably less problematic. we will see however.
The sells are low level but steady so i am not sure it indicates someone knows something about the permits that is not in the public domain, more perhaps a sell day on the stability on Nicaragua.
Hopefully both of the above is not the case but it is odd that we have had 300k volume early on monday.
Hopefully that will be resolved and understand the government of Nicaragua have backed down on their reforms but underlines that Nicaragua is not quite as stable as perhaps everyone would like so there is a risk added into the price.
Hopefully it will spur the government to sign off the permits quicker as the creation of jobs and revenue for the government is sorely needed.
I started looking -in on Condor on a daily basis a couple of weeks ago, expecting an announcement on the permits to come through at any time. Today's opening price was therefore, at least initially, a bit of a surprise ,although when you look at the situation it's not that hard to come up with some reasons.
1) A $20+ drop in the USD price of gold on Thursday/Friday last week. I suspect that this was a short term influence.
2) Illiquidity in the shares. The market makers are no doubt chalking this up as a success as the lower price has perked up volumes (a little). Late afternoon trades would have had a bearing as well.
3) It remains very difficult to put a timeline on the permissions. We are on Central American time on this one which could mean tomorrow or June. Who knows?
Whatever the case, we are still where we were last week, albeit with a lower price and perhaps a little more frustration and, for some, less patience.
I still think the permits could land any day and will remain steadfast on it.
Agreed, to a degree, although I'm not sensing anything like a stampede to get in before the permits are issued. My guess is that it is still the 'speculative punt' crowd rather than the day trade tribe. We may see a few more given the price revival over the past week or two but I reckon that a lot of people are still wary of gold juniors.
I still think it's taking tiny volumes to significantly move the price. Volume at 133,000 today for example and a 3p upward move.
I'm starting to feel like we are back in early to mid-2010.
Gold is hovering arounf $1350 and looks like it might be getting ready for a leap, and some of the gold stocks are starting to show some signs of life. Newmont, for example, is up a third vs. a year ago and the pattern is similar elsewhere:
Other big ones have been less exciting over that time period but most seem to have shown signs of upward momentum over the past month.
I think something may be afoot, not just with Condor but with the sector as a whole.
2010 was insane towards the end but the way it started off gave little away in terms of clues about how it would end. Could we be in for a repeat performance? It is after all eight years, plenty enough time for base building.
Interestingly, Condor was around 10p in August 2010 (equivalent money terms) and by early December was around 215p. It was a mad time, but boy was it fun to watch. It's happened once and could happen again, only this time we will have something solid behind us.
I can't believe how small the volumes are relative to the price moves in this stock. It looks like there is very little selling going on, and even the mid 50s and upwards doesn't look like it's going to entice many more.
The permits coming through will make life very interesting for the market makers, who may well struggle finding the right price. For me, the permits represent the start of open-season in the M&A space. Sure, it's not production, but they represent a completely different valuation criteria; a massive de-risking event. We know that there have been more than a handful of mid-caps, and possibly majors, already kicking the tyres on Condor so I can't see it taking long before something more solid takes place. The Condor's of the gold world a few and far between, and it's a binary situation; one company's gain will be every other player's loss.
Meanwhile, the window on getting those permits is already open. They could be granted as early as this week, or maybe not until June. I err on the sooner rather than later side but I've no real insight into the speed of administration in Central America. From what I can see most of the stakeholders are now on-side so it can only really be admin that is holding things up; unless anyone knows better.
The 'market', what there is of it, seems to be sniffing out the opportunity but judging by the volumes there is still a lot of circumspection around. The non-believers still outnumber the believers. But that will change.
Lets hope those permits are forthcoming and happy to go along with your forecast of this month but given the scale of the documentation they need to wade through i would be forgiving if they signed them off before July. I say July as otherwise nothing will happen until after September as everyone takes a long break.
I have not direct knowledge of the local community and just a personal view about what they were trying to leverage (normally compensation) but if many become employees on good wages and give up the compensation route then you might be correct but i dont have any specific information but i do positively note there is no re-run of the anti capitalist petitions at the moment so that does suggest fatigue on some sorts. Hopefully they will not be blockading the pits in the future.
If you have any information that Mark has been going door to door getting each of the objectors on side that would be nice to know or otherwise i will probably bump into him on the backstreets of Mayfair.
I'm more optimistic than you on a couple of points.
Firstly, I get the impression that the local community are far more enthisiastic about the situation than you might be thinking. The prospect of several hundred (relatively) well paid jobs is far more alluring than the inconvenience of having artificial landscaping imposed on them. My understanding is that the revised proposals sorted out most of the concerns that they had.
Secondly, my thinking is that (partly because of the above) the permits could be granted as early as this month (April). Admin is slow in central America but it looks like all parties are now supporting the move, which suggests that it is literally the speed of bureaucracy which is holding things up.
Agreed on the illiquidity of the share, which is why I think we will see a fairly robust and positive reaction when the permits do land. Anyone who doesn't buy now will have a far more challenging time in a few weeks time, at least in buying at today's levels. The FD may well have been using his ISA allowance but he's also no doubt thinking that if he doesn't go now he will be 1) precluded from buying due to inside trading regs (closed period) and 2) not much chance of buying in the 40s.
Fingers crossed on a decent revaluation when they finally comes through.
I think the level of free float for this stock is a major factor as in reality only £50k-£80k of stock is being traded daily in the market but we are seeing large price changes with a bid spread of around 7% so very large. Therefore even relatively small buys can move the share up and down and in light of new news little to do with fundamentals.
it is encouraging that a further director has bought a small amount if the open market to lend some confidence but it was a small purchase. obviously insiders have small windows to make investments and probably this was his ISA allowance being used up at the start of the financial year.
With the threat of ongoing issues in the Middle East and wider the POG has seen a general uptrend that is likely to continue as Russia are the 2nd largest gold miners in the world.
if Mark was right we should hear something before July and the AGM is conveniently on the 26th June so i am sure he would like nothing better than to come to the AGM and start talking about putting shovels in the ground rather than explaining his disastrous 3 years of wasted time trying to ride rough shod over local residents thinking the Nicaraguan government would sweep them aside. This to me is very troubling they even thought that was possible and to not have quickly consulted and found a way forward.
I still think the local community will be doubling down on efforts to stop Condor as they now face no compensation and still a big pit on their doorstep with just a 5m high wall and most of them connected to artisan miners means their livelihoods might be affected. Appreciate that many might well go and work for Condor so lets hope Mark is on the ground smoothing over the issues quickly and not jetting around the world doing his little presentations. i wonder how many weeks he actually spends in La India as i am not sure the management team are on the front line as much as they should be as this should have been done and dusted years ago.
i have been doing some more research and i agree that permits do look increasingly likely as a number of other foreign miners have got the permits in the end. There was a nice line iin one of the videos where Mark Child mentioned meeting the presidents son and that is often a good sign someone is listening
However like most of these goldmines it is the guy selling the pickaxes who makes the fortune and i wonder how much of the cash shareholders have spent over the years on digging holes has been making others rich and being suspicion would ask who owns these companies?
The £2.5m raised will keep the wheels moving and hopefully be enough to get us over the line for permits and then hopefully you might hope the lending wandon will pull up with $120m but there will be strings attached.
I think the recent private placement at 43.5p will be a bit of a hold-up for sometime to come although i do not know how many of these shares are held by long-term holders. I have noted the price of 43.5p is pretty much sticky at the moment. That could mean there is a slosh fund of stock floating around going for the placement price.
Hopefully long suffering shareholders might see some real action this year.
I agree that in some ways Mark Child is aligned although he has picked up a very nice steady salary over the last 12 years, sits on a lot of options and shares and impressive that since it was formed he has not actually got his hands dirty and put a shovel in the ground, so to speak.
We can hope the Nicaraguan government do not have other ideas about the structure of the mine as you sense in these countries that ministers who hold the keys might well fancy the goldmine for another interested party and have quite a lot of say. While it looks possible the government might provide the permit it is far from a certainty given the background of opposition from locals who might be now just a annoyed as they probably all thought they were going to get a payoff and now they will not, but still be within earshot of the mine but with a 5m wall in the way. something tells me the locals are not exactly now going to roll out the carpet after all this time.
My other question is that if Condor does get the permit how long do we need to wait before we start to see some revenue hitting the coffers and the costs to get to that point? my understanding is that even with permit in hand are we talking 6/12/18 /24/36 months before operation and what money shareholders will need to input?
There is just something nagging me that why has so much time elapsed and not a single permit been forthcoming. my only real assumption is that the management are relatively incompetent or not really rushing to get any mine open.
its important to be suspicious as i have been on the receiving end of listed companies that end up in trouble, only for the assets to be sold to someone else to enjoy the fruits and todate i think shareholders have sunk £40m in this mine over the last 12 years and today the company is worth £27m?
I know all about juniors burning through cash but in defence of Condor, MC is also a major shareholder and is more aligned with shareholder interests than most other directors.
It's also reassuring to see that the £2.5m placing cash was raised through existing shareholders and did not require new money. The timing is interesting as well. By my reckoning is pretty much just before the permits are expected to land - some time between now and the end of May\early June.
Once the permits are granted the game changes, and with the grades of Au in results there will be plenty of big investors wanting in on a JV....or taking over!
Solg proved a big find and the big boys came in with money to burn taking the price from low pennies to 46p in 7 months!!
Profit takers have been very shrewd taking their booty off the table since, but it still shows how things can change dramatically once certain technical formalities are out of the way.
And the permit delay issue `will` be out of the way...a case of when now, not if!!
True, we are in a 'show not tell' world these days but I do sense the lack of permits has been holding back the share price. My guess is that a potential acquirer will not truly take Condor seriously until those permits are issued. They are a pretty significant de-risking event.
Condor Gold Raises GBP2.5 million by way of 5,197,674 placing. Usual suspects taking part which is good to see. 10% dilution but glad to see it out of the way and a relatively minor placing.
Condor Gold (AIM: CNR; OTCQX: CNFGF; TSX: COG) is pleased to announce a placing ("the Placing") of 5,197,674 Units (as defined below) at a price of 43p per Unit (the "Placing Price") together with a proposed Directors' subscription of 616,279 Units ("Directors' Subscription") to raise in aggregate gross proceeds of GBP2.5 million. The Placing has been undertaken by the Company with institutional and other investors. The completion of the Placing and proposed Directors' Subscription is conditional, inter alia, upon admission of the Placing Shares (as defined below) to trading on AIM. The Company has received conditional approval from the Toronto Stock Exchange (the "TSX") for the Placing.
Each Unit comprises one ordinary share of 20p each in the Company ("Placing Share") and half of one share purchase warrant of the Company (a "Warrant"). Each Warrant, which is unlisted and fully transferable, will entitle the holder thereof to purchase one ordinary share at a price of 65p (which is at a 50% premium to the Placing Price) for a period of 24 months from the date on which the shares issued pursuant to the Placing are admitted to trading on AIM (the "Closing Date").
Mark Child, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Condor, commented:
"Condor Gold has conducted a small private placement, issuing new ordinary shares representing 9.5% of the Company's existing issued share capital, to raise gross proceeds of GBP2.5 million, the overwhelming majority of the placement consideration is from existing shareholders. The placement proceeds will be used to see the Company through the final stages of permitting a 2,800tpd processing plant with capacity to produce 100,000 oz gold per annum at La India Project, Nicaragua.
On 26(th) February 2018, the Company announced it had re-designed the proposed mine site infrastructure at La India Project to avoid the resettlement of approximately 330 houses or 1,000 people and submitted an amendment to its Environmental and Social Impact Assessment, as part of the application for the Environmental Permit. There have subsequently been further meetings with senior Nicaraguan Ministers and a site visit inspection of the re-designed mine site infrastructure. The Company believes it has made significant progress towards obtaining permits and we are in the final stages of the permitting process."
Background to and reasons for the Placing
The net proceeds of the Placing and proposed Directors' Subscriptions amounts to approximately GBP2.4 million. It will be used for general working capital purposes and to continue with the strategy to fully permit the La India Project in Nicaragua for a 2,800tpd processing plant with capacity to produce 100,000 oz gold p.a. On 28(th) February 2018, the Company announced it had redesigned the proposed mine site infrastructure to avoid resettlement of approximately 330 houses or 1,000 people and submitted an amendment to its Environmental and Social Impact Assessment, as part of the application for the Environmental Permit.
Details of the Placing and proposed Directors' Subscription
The Company has conducted the Placing as principal. A total of 5,813,953 Units (comprising of 5,813,953 ordinary shares and 2,906,977 Warrants) have been and will be placed with placees at the Placing Price to raise gross proceeds of GBP2,500,000.
The completion of the Placing is conditional, inter alia, upon admission of the Placing Shares to trading on AIM. The Company has received conditional approval from the TSX for the Placing. The Placing Price of 43 pence per share represents a small discount to the current share price.
In addition, the Company advises that two directors of the Company, namely Jim Mellon and Andrew Cheatle, intend to subscribe for a total of 616,279 Units
Only when production money starts to come in and fund operations can you really expect a substantial share price rise. The days of punters going for "jam tomorrow" are over. There have been too many abusers in AIM-listed company directorates. "once bitten " etc etc.?
Now that the permits are more of a 'when' than an 'if' I would have expected a little speculation start to appear in the price. I'm therefore somewhat puzzled by the last few days action which has sent it in the opposite direction. Is this just market making or have the day traders showing a bit of impatience? I've no idea. What I do know is that all the right noises are coming out of both the company and Nicaraguan officials.
The real question of course is one of what happens when the permits do arrive. I would imagine that we will get some price adjustment towards Condor's peer group average but will any takeover speculation start? We can only guess but I'm pretty sure the tyres must have been kicked in anticipation of an official sanction from local politicians. Will it then be a full takeover or a JV type arrangement with Condor's excellent local relationships oiling the wheels of mining activity? I'm expecting the latter but not completely dismissing the former. We'll just have to see what transpires when the permits are granted.
If the permits are granted in the next few weeks ( 2 - 10 weeks?) I'm guessing the price reaction could be quite positive given that I detect little or no speculative buying in today's price. A 100% jump might be too much to expect but I don't see a 20% - 50% increase as wildly optimistic given what happens with other companies. Take Eurasia mining for example which experienced a 40% increase in early February after receiving its own permits. It's usually takeover speculation that really propels the price but Condor's has been suppressed for such an inordinately long time that it just might spring.
I've just about started to look in on this on a day by day basis now.
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