(PFP) Pathfinder Minerals

A trade treaty should not stop an individual from presenting their case in a law court. If that individual should fail they still have a right to appeal and again a trade treaty cannot prevent that. If the General is determined to abuse the legal system he will. An out of court settlement would be the best solution but at what price.

I am not of a legal background and have simply concluded by what appears logic that if the Mozambique court has no powers of importance , then why are they involved ?
We have both aired our views, and have the same hopes and aspirations.
I admire your tenacity.
Tommoo.

Tommoo, I disagree. The UK courts have unequivocally concluded the case is subject to UK jurisdiction. The Mozambique legal system is just a toy for the General to bury Pathfinder in for another year or so - a complete red herring. The Trade agreement must be enforced else why go to governmental expense of having a trade agreement. I for one have written to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office asking why they have not taken action when quite clearly a UK company has had its assets stolen by a member of the Mozambique government and that theft has been proven without any doubt by the UK High Court and judged by the leading legal names in the country. I think one of the UK broadsheets needs to run an article on the subject if only to embarrass the FCO into action.

This is Lady G an interesting document , but I wonder if it only becomes of use to consider, when the judgement of the UK court is ratified in Mozambique , and all appeal processes have been exhausted.?
We all know that the board have been unsparing in their legal pursuits, however if you are convinced that it has some teeth , it may well be useful to send it as a suggestion to Pathfinder ?
Tommoo.

I did put down in my last post headed ' Lengthy Process ' why I can appreciate the current lack of appetite for what I see as Long Term investment. Or put another way by tying money up in PFP, there are opportunity costs involved.
I do agree with you that if the process of law prevails , the future is bright for this share, but like most people I currently see ( IMHO ) better short term possibilities for gain.
Much as I would love to believe otherwise , the general will drag this out as long as the legal process allows , assuming the local judgement goes against him.
Tommoo.

Am I the only one out here that thinks the last RNS is a cracker - well written, very informative and certainly NOT a signal to sell as the story moves to its eventual conclusion? an odd muted reaction all around.

Well worth a read. http://www.pathfinderminerals.com/~/media/Files/P/Pathfinders-ECW/Attachments/presentations/judgment-approved-13-05-2013.pdf

This just got posted on another Board and IMHO it is absolutely correct - perhaps somebody with an account could also replicate it over on ADVFN. --------- "Did you all know there is a trade treaty signed between the UK and Mozambique Governments that came into effect 27th February 2007. http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/cm71/7150/7150.pdf I for one will be lobbying my M.P. and demanding to know why, especially after such a strong UK High Court judgement, that Pathfinder's licences have not been re-assigned by the Mozambique Ministry responsible - what is the point of a treaty titled "Promotion and Protection of Investments" if UK company assets are stolen at will by government officials in Mozambique? Perhaps rather than wasting our time posting on this board, you may all like to join me in writing to the UK Foreign Office and the Mozambique Ambassador in London asking just this question."

"I for one am looking forwards to some terrible news so the share price goes up *rolls eyes*"

The worst terrible news would be no real news month after month. I'm not thinking about the recent past as the Brit High Court stuff is real enough; rather what could be ahead of us.

Leading on from others points I guess he'll only cooperate if his lifestyle is threatened. Time to pursue with vigor, all the way if necessary.

I have used the phrase previously ,' So Far So Very Good ' which I also think is particularly appropriate here , however looking at the RNS under the heading of Enforcements And Costs Awards the following is written .........

The company is advised that the process for recognition and enforcement of judgements in Mozambique is a lengthy one , during which the defendants will have an opportunity to object.

In summary then if the judgement in Mozambique , goes against the general as hopefully is likely, we can expect a stalling of execution by as many objections by the general as the legal process allows. This will be the only bargaining tool left to the general , and in so doing he must weight up, the detriment to his own not inconsiderable share holding.
Therefore the one hope that exists as matters currently stand is that a compromise can be found , and that is an unknown quantity at the moment.
If my understanding of current matters is correct , that would explain why the share price is currently weak, as the time to invest is when there is a clear sight of a return, which is not the case currently.
I am happy to hold as i don't see any other real alternative presently, other than to await the due process of law or reasonably compromise.
All very frustrating !
Tommoo.

Good news and promising stuff via the RNS, with some punchy stuff from the Judges as well.....but the share price goes down?!
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I for one am looking forwards to some terrible news so the share price goes up *rolls eyes*

if UK judgements are enforceable in Moz, I hope the General will be vigourously pursued for the £1.1m costs - hopefully that will focus his mind...

Well, the justices did not pull their punches.

I found the "In each of these proceedings the Defendants allege, amongst other things,..." bit intriguing and am pleased I did not read the General's blogs except those posted here.

I don't know if any of us are a fan of management but they have pursued the legals hard. This RNS was also written in simple English. I thank them for both things.

Time is money so I hope they can work something out but it must be horrendously tricky.

Another legal victory for pfp......

Commenting on the judgment Nick Trew, Pathfinder's CEO, said,

"The Defendants acceded to the jurisdiction of the English court and then consciously and deliberately breached each order given by its judges.

The Defendants cannot escape the consequences of their actions forever through their obvious attempts to delay restoration of the licences. Not only are the Defendants depriving Pathfinder's shareholders of the assets they invested in, they are also depriving Mozambique, in particular the Zambezia Province, of the many social and economic benefits associated with the project. Were it not for the actions of the Defendants, the Definitive Feasibility Study would by now have been completed and, assuming this had proven the economic viability of the deposits, the construction of a processing plant and all the associated neighbouring infrastructure would have been underway, thus providing employment for many of the local populace. It is deplorable that the conduct of a few individuals should place at risk the prosperity of the region for the misguided prospect of greater financial benefit for themselves.

With the dismissal of the Defendants' application to appeal the English High Court judgment now marking the conclusion of the English proceedings, Pathfinder is focusing wholly on pursuing its remedies in Mozambique. I continue, however, to urge General Veloso to recognise that a co-operative resolution with Pathfinder, by which the project is returned to development, is undoubtedly in both his interests and the interests of the citizens of Mozambique.


"Parallel political process

Pathfinder believes there is evidence of a strong political will in Mozambique to see the issue resolved and work resume on the project. To that end the Company continues to strive for an earlier resolution than that which it believes will be achieved in the courts, through the pursuit of a parallel political strategy involving members of both the British and Mozambican Governments.

I noticed a purchase this morning which is interesting to the value of £20,000.
No news yet that I can trace about the £150 K being paid into court .
Tommoo.

Medium term is discussed ,on my blog .

http://bbr391.blogspot.co.uk/

gla concerned

You are right Indy in that I usually go long. However it rather depends on whether I feel the market is overbought and due a correction. In which case just as a form of insurance I may sell stock, to build up a war chest, to take advantage of any market weakness.
I have had profitable sessions on part of my Kenmare holding, but in the main am holding and waiting for what I believe will be much better times when the macro climate improves significantly.
I also might sell stock if I fervently believe in having identified a better opportunity.Or if the school fees envelope graces the postbox.
I do have a good feeling for Pfp short term , but as to anything longer I am not convinced it will be anything other like a long slog , and I have that already with KMR.
All the best.
Tommoo.

Remember the General has only 24 hours to cough up the first installment of PFP's legal costs to date...

From RNS...
"The Court of Appeal ordered the Appellants to pay Pathfinder's costs incurred in contesting the Application and ordered an interim payment on account of those costs in an amount of £150,000 to be paid within 14 days."

It would be nice to think PFP could fund future legal action from regular installments from the General; but how likely is that! My money is on the General refusing to pay followed by even more legal action to enforce the court order. Surely his shares in the company could be confiscated.

Tommoo, are you often a long term investor or is it just a project like this one that keeps you enthralled? I think you trade Kenmare a bit given the chance or maybe I'm thinking of Taleban. Please excuse my memory which can be good at times but shocking at others.

They've been good with RNS here very recently but have they always advised of the upcoming court dates and is it required from a regulatory point of view? I

It's tempting to top up on a small scale but then one will have to find that bit more if funding is slipped in sooner than later. Money goes so quickly!

MMMMMMMmmmm I think personally Devon I will stick my wager on PFP, at least you KNOW it is out there to win.
All the best,
Tommoo.

For myself, loot, it is such a punt that I am not even considering an each way bet. For that sort of gambling I prefer to back the horses, but only when I can see them in the paddock pre-race. Far to long a time six I last backed all six winners to win!!

Like "Kenmare were twenty years ago"? Back then, they were working on graphite mines, to feed the booming demand for HB pencils!!

Hi Beta Devonian,

I agree, it will be many years before we see an operational mine. For me this is purely a punt on the ongoing legal case. I have not given any thought to operational issues as this is way beyond my time horizon. In truth PFP are probably where Kenmare were twenty years ago and there is an awful lot of the wrong type of clay to get through before we can even begin to value the company on resources.

As I have given up the belief, a long time ago, that I can predict future share price based on current fundamentals; perhaps I'll have better luck taking a punt on what should be an open and shut legal case (at least that is how it was seen in the English courts). I do not believe that the outcome need be a binary bet, recent share price activity has demonstrated that there should be plenty of opportunity to take money off the table and also plenty of opportunity to top up depending on how the wind blows and provided I can maintain my dicipline.

Hmmm. sounds to me that Gold or Silver is a medium term bear on commodity prices.

Were all the issues resolved, financing in place no doubt via a massive placing plus loans, all permits in hand, contractors signed up & equipment orderd, etc, then PFP could be expected to need about three more years, perhaps more, before HMC proccessed into ilmenite, zircon & rutile, starts to dribble into the Finished goods stores!

Look to KMR's 2010 Phase II expansion.

One expects will be the order of the court in Mozambique .
Come on General Mischief .Let`s get this mining underway .
Should be just in time for the swing in material prices .


gla concerned @ The Path to glory

Waylander,

"I bought in at 1.52, nearly sold on Monday for 1.85 but got greedy and held out. Whoops!"

Me too but I would have sold if I could have got 1.8+ but when I was watching the spread made that impossible. I tried leaving limit orders and placed F&Ks too. I do like the potential of something exciting on the court room steps though but then I don't think the BoD is limited by a closed periods with such things and they are not doing any meaningful buys.

As for 0.8 or 1p or whatever then partly because I might have been wrong the other day about all the hot money being out I will wait for Mr Market to indicate when he has finished toying with us.

Tommoo,

I would prefer to be out with a modest profit to cover opportunity cost before funding but if not then I would also follow my rights as not to do is generally a disaster. As we know through Kenmare the rest is a doddle! (Wrong kind of clay; wrong kind of dredger; pond wondering off on a hiking trip; directors and workers insisting on pay cuts; moderate rains; stimulating power supply challenges and all the rest.)

Indy

Indy,
In a nutshell I have done a couple of top ups , albeit small . If the licenses are finally and completely won back, then I will reinvest via the offerings that are bound to follow.
All the best.
Tommoo.

Indy, I bought in at 1.52, nearly sold on Monday for 1.85 but got greedy and held out. Whoops!
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Personally I'm looking to get a few more shares at around 1p; they went as low as 0.8 before but I’m thinking that on-going legal stuff is more "hopeful" than historic challenges, and as such, i can't see them slipping to 0.8 unless there aren’t any more announcements for a year!
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I doubt the interdict appeal will go anywhere, and then it’s either a hearing in Maputo to get the licenses back, or as others have suggested, a deal of some kind so the General can save face. So it feels like its nearing an end, although it could still take a year+ in my opinion. And then, as you point out, there’s the legal fees spent Vs what Pathfinder can actually get from the General. I would put money on an issue of more shares to gain more capital.
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I'm sticking at the moment, because an announcement of a deal could happen any time. It would be just my luck to sell for a bit of profit, only to miss the rocket! But if we get near 1p I’ll be topping up.
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Waylander

I'm now more comfortable that we'll win even if we will be skint. Drift may take the price down but I don't see the point in selling at 1.25p if I didn't at my adjusted b/e point at about 1.6p. May as well have the dream at levels down here.

Obviously something has to be held back for a rainy day when the begging bow is out stretched again..

In the mean time what do posters think is a good top up point?

Even if some of the hot money rampers were using buys of about three hundred quid to get the price up we have seen that it can rise by what I found a surprisingly high percentage on quite tame news.

PS: We must have spent in excess of three million pounds on this legal stuff so I hope a bit more is used to go after the costs whether they are partially recoverable or not. That old goat sure can whine.

Wasn't that an excellent RNS, well done to the Directors at PFP. I would guess the next move is to have the full absolute judgement sent over to the lady judge in Mozambique so she can issue her judgement - although, given the contracts relating to the transfer of licences are written under UK Law, tested by the UK High Court and UK jurisdiction proven, she may well feel she has no jurisdiction in the matter. Anyway, I would expect some positive news flow here over coming weeks; and a return of the licences must be very close now. Time for the General to enter into a face-saving deal – those >£1 million court costs must be an issue for him and if he and Cavaco still want to play games then move to aggressively collect on them.

The stock market hurts my head.
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Bandwagon rampers declare the "these will be 8p by tomorrow!" and the share goes up.
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Pathfinder announce facts and good news, share goes down.
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Anyway, next steps.
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1) The UK stuff seems to be sorted now. Pathfinder need to apply to the English High Courts to have the appeal removed from the system I believe. But that’s just stuff.
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2) The General has informed Pathfinder that he will be seeking to challenge the Maputo Court revoking the interdict. (See Pathfinder announcement of 2nd April and 27th March). So that for me is the next step.
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The General got the interdict against pathfinder because he (his legal guys) didn’t tell the Maputo Courts that there was already court action on-going in the UK. The Maputo judge revoked the interdict upon Pathfinder presenting evidence.
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Whilst frustrating from a time perspective, I personally believe that the Generals challenge to the revoking of the interdict will fail, given how he neglected the whole truth the first time round.
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3) Once that’s out of the way, and providing the General has run out of time delaying ideas, it’s time for Pathfinder to follow up on the High Court ruling in Maputo. Licences back, Shovels and Wheelbarrows out, Share price up, Waylander happy.
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Just my opinion of things drawn from some facts.
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Waylander

nat81,

We are waiting for a date from the Moz High Court I think. They didn't exactly rush after the two month end of year recess but hopefully there is some urgency now, get that hole dug and all that.

As for drift then AIM's hot money rampers are probably mostly out for the time being. As for investors and contrarian traders then I suppose it comes down to ones personal guesses on funding and timing. We want for dosh more so than data.

The wild card would be a deal. Is the General's choice of language in his blog an invitation to make a better offer or does he intend to fight to the end.

Loot,

If I factor in a modest profit on a bit of trading here then I have just about been at breakeven a few times (briefly) these past few days. The mental gymnastics rest on the question is jumping out for a fraction of a penny more worth giving up the chance of a company changing RNS arriving sooner than I anticipate. The spread is not exactly conducive to say hedging by selling a few. At one point it was 1.5p to 2.0p yesterday when I did a mock trade. A third is about the worse I have ever seen.

Indy

no that victory on english court is for PFP, the next step is for PFP to defend this case in MOZ court.

when is the MOZ court sitting? hopefully wont be too long as otherwise sp may drift while waiting for result.

Evening Loot,
Your final paragraph is so accurate.
Nobody wants to have a 100% loss of face , and It may well be that PFP will make a token gesture to afford the opposition an opportunity to leave the arena with some trace of dignity.
If a line can be drawn under the licenses, the next step will be significant funding required , however the potential payload is such that I for one will be happy to commit further funds.
So far so very good.
Tommoo.

Hi Indy,

Without actually saying any more than we already knew, I think the Judge took the opportunity to send a strong message to the Moz court and to the General (should he choose to listen). It will be very difficult for the Moz court to do an about turn now.

This has been a good few days for our PFP investment and I hope you and others on this board are back in profit in the near future. For me the most significant aspect of the appeal (or lack of it) is that it proves what we always suspected; that the General has no new evidence to bring to bear and has used the appeal process both here and in Moz in the most cynical way.

We should hopefully see another substantial rise tomorrow and once the dust settles it should become increasingly clear to the General that his strategy in Moz is a carbon copy of the failed strategy he has used in the English courts i.e. to use the appeal process in the absence of any strong argument.

It is worth reminding ourselves the the Moz appeal is against a judgement made by the Moz court that the General's interdict “amounted to an abuse of process”. This kind of language from a Judge should be beginning to sound very familiar to the General.

I still think the General will try to go through with his appeal but it would not suprise me if we got an RNS out of the blue one day soon to the effect that some out of court agreement has finally been reached.

Loot,

Is that that the nature of an RNS you were anticipating or a kind of "this is where we are now over all" communication? Either way ,,,, humble pie for me tonight.

I'm wondering if the Mozambican judge will have a similar sense of humour failure. Being on the wrong side of lawyers is bad (and expensive) enough.

Indy

Excellent RNS

"cynical and tactical ploy"
"devoid of merit"
"£150,000 to be paid within 14 days"

I'm not sure the old boy can take any more of this.

Mozambique court will more than likely dismissed this case and reinstate the licence to PFP, as they will follow English court.

definate BUY !!

Ok . I got it wrong by one week.

gla @ The Path to Glory

http://pathfinderminerals.blogspot.co.uk/

From ADVFN.


makday
22 Apr'13 - 10:13 - 1348 of 1349

There is a lot of confusion and some negativity on these boards at the moment and mainly from new investors who have not followed the machinations here this past 18 months or so. In my opinion, the activity on Friday was a seminal moment for Pathfinder; risk reward factors have turned positive, so well worth a recap on some key points – 1. The contracts relating to the transfer of licences are written under UK Law. This has been tested by the UK High Court and UK jurisdiction has been proven. 2. UK High Court have strongly judged ownership of licences in favour of Pathfinder and even went as far as to lambast the General/Cavaco for their awful behaviour 3. Mozambique courts perhaps therefore have no jurisdiction over these contracts. However, even if they did wish to opine, their final judgment on ownership is overdue – in all probability it has been waiting on the UK judgement to be made absolute; which will now happen following Friday’s activity. It is worth also noting the Moz courts have previously found in Pathfinder’s favour on a connected issue so no favours have been shown towards the General. 4. The General may once have been a national war hero but his star has certainly been dimmed over this debacle – old Mozambique versus new Mozambique is the issue here. He has lost his place in government and local press has been giving him a hard time. Political pressure is massive at the highest levels; UK Prime Minister and Mozambique President, UK foreign office very hot on this as the General’s theft is in direct breach of trade agreements between the UK and Mozambique. Perhaps watch out for news about foreign aid being withdrawn and inward investment curtailed. 5. Return of licences is only a matter of time as the fight is all but over – just need some face-saving deal to be done with the General. Cavaco, the General’s partner here is not under political pressure and he and his team of vultures may try to fight on. Although the UK court costs have killed Cavaco’s no lose position; i.e. he has tried to grab the deal for himself in the knowledge that if that fails he and the General still hold 10% of Pathfinder shares – well, that hedge is destroyed now as UK court costs against them (joint and several) have mounted to over £1million. IMHO Pathfinder would do well to aggressively collect on these now. 6. Share price of PFP has remained excessively depressed while this war of attrition has been going on and a re-rating to reasonable levels is now on the cards. Value of the licences has serious increased to circa $1billion since feasibility studies some two years ago as product prices have almost trebled on those use in that conservative calculation. Current share price (1.75) values PFP’s market cap at £18million! 7. Pathfinder should be quite news heavy over coming days/weeks as backroom deals are struck and the licences eventually returned. Although legal p

tez123
22 Apr'13 - 10:39 - 1349 of 1349

longandwrong
Posts: 134
Off Topic
Opinion: Strong Buy
Price: 1.48
It's Confirmed Today 10:35The General's blog just confirmed he and Cavaco walked away from the appeal, so they never paid up on Friday. UK October judgement can now be made absolute. General's blog goes on to dig up old junk about Mozambique injunctions which we know are incorrect. It's all over IMO bar the shouting and nasty recriminations.